Comments on: Yoak: Face Up http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/05/yoak-face-up/ The Math Factor Podcast Site Fri, 08 Aug 2014 12:52:06 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.25 By: jyoak http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/05/yoak-face-up/comment-page-1/#comment-542 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:33:08 +0000 http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=640#comment-542 “You flip 1,2,3 or all cards on your turn…”

I’m not sure if you can do it without being able to turn all the cards.

]]>
By: Blaine http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/05/yoak-face-up/comment-page-1/#comment-541 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 03:10:32 +0000 http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=640#comment-541 Yes, I did miss the wording of all face up… I took that to mean all the same direction (face up *or* face down).  There’s still a complication because the puzzle states that you can flip 1, 2 or 3 cards… flipping all 4 isn’t included.

Let me think a bit more.

]]>
By: Stephen Morris http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/05/yoak-face-up/comment-page-1/#comment-532 Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:58:27 +0000 http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=640#comment-532 Blaine’s solution is the same as mine if you take into account the one difference between his puzzle and this one.

In Blaine’s puzzle all of the ‘cards’ have to be the same way up, rather than having to all be face up.  They could be all face down.
This makes flipping all of the cards unnecessary.
My solution is the same as his with extra steps to flip all of the cards.
]]>
By: Stephen Morris http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/05/yoak-face-up/comment-page-1/#comment-531 Sun, 31 May 2009 20:53:10 +0000 http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=640#comment-531 A nice tricky problem.  I think I have a solution.

I’m afraid I can’t make the spoiler tag work properly.  I’ve tried several times including copying from another comment.

So don’t read this if you don’t want to know my solution.

 

[spoiler] Suppose the starting states of the four cards is a, b, c, d.  I always show the cards in the starting orientation regardless of how the table is rotated.

1) Starting position 

  b

  d

2) Flip all cards.  We now have covered all scenarios where zero of four cards are flipped.

-a -b

-c -d

3) Flip two cards down a diagonal.  As we don’t know the orientation of the table we don’t know which diagonal will be flipped.

 a –b   OR  -a  b

-c  d        c -d

4) Flip all cards.  This gives the same state as if we had flipped the other diagonal in step 3.  We have now covered all states where a diagonal is flipped.

-a    OR   a -b

 c -d       -c  d

5) Flip two cards along a side.  Again we don’t know which side is flipped, nor which of the two states we are in at step 4.  However we do know that we will have a state with one side flipped relative to the starting position at step 1)

  b

-c -d

Steps 6-8 repeat steps 2-3. This gives all four states with this property (one side flipped).  To see this you need to see that each of these states can be got from any other by flipping a diagonal or flipping all the cards. 

I only show one possibility.  The order will depend on the table rotations.

6) Flip all cards, as step 2.

-a -b

  d

7) Flip a diagonal, as step 3.  In this case a and d are flipped.

 a -b

 c -d

8) Flip all cards, as step 4.

-a  b

-c  d

Now we have covered all eight possibilities with an even number of cards flipped relative to the starting position.

There are a further eight possibilities with an odd number of cards flipped.  To get these we flip one card and then repeat the previous steps. 

Flipping one card will put into some state with an odd number of cards flipped.  As the further steps lead to an even number of cards being flipped and are distinct this will give us all eight possibilities with an odd number flipped.

I show one possibility.

9) Flip one card.  In this case a is flipped.

  b

-c  d

10) Flip all cards, as step 2. 

-a -b

 c -d

11) Flip two cards down a diagonal, as step 3.  In this case a and d are flipped.

 a –b

  d

12) Flip all cards, as step 4. 

-a  b

-c -d

13) Flip two cards along a side, as step 5.  In this case we flip a and c.

  b

 c -d

14) Flip all cards, as step 6.

-a -b

-c  d

15) Flip a diagonal, as step 7.  In this case we flip a and d.

 a -b

-c -d

16) Flip all cards, as step 8.

-a  b

  d

So there we are.  All sixteen possibilities accounted for.  At some point they must all be face up! [/spoiler]

 

 

]]>
By: jyoak http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/05/yoak-face-up/comment-page-1/#comment-529 Fri, 29 May 2009 03:55:00 +0000 http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=640#comment-529 Blaine, I haven’t attempted to verify your solution yet, but you seem to write that your steps 2 through 8 are what is required if the cards can’t all start face-down and that step 1 eliminates this problem.  That isn’t so.  The step 1 that would be required would be turning over all of the cards in step one.

That said, I’m still doubtful that these problems work out to be the same.  Your problem on your site calls for the switches to be either all on or all off.  All face down isn’t a solution set here.

I’ll look in more detail in a couple of days.  Unfortunately I’m packing right now for a trip and I will probably have little time over the next four days or so.

]]>
By: Blaine http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/05/yoak-face-up/comment-page-1/#comment-528 Fri, 29 May 2009 00:47:16 +0000 http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=640#comment-528 Although it is played with cards, this puzzle has essentially the same solution as one I posted recently on my website:
http://puzzles.blainesville.com/2009/05/friday-fun-rapidly-rotating-electronic.html

[spoiler]My puzzle assumed that you couldn’t start with all cards(switches) facing the same way.  My solution required no more than 7 steps.  With the additional possibility of all cards up or down, you would need one extra step where you flip any cards you like.  So the total steps would be 8 in this case.

Summary:
Step 1:  Flip any cards you like (1, 2 or 3)
Step 2:  Flip two opposite cards.
Step 3:  Flip two adjacent cards.
Step 4:  Flip two opposite cards.
Step 5:  Flip one card (or equivalently, three cards)
Step 6:  Flip two opposite cards.
Step 7:  Flip two adjacent cards.
Step 8:  Flip two opposite cards.[/spoiler]

]]>