Comments on: Follow Up: Loops and the Harmonic Series. http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2008/10/follow-up-loops-and-the-harmonic-series/ The Math Factor Podcast Site Fri, 08 Aug 2014 12:52:06 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.25 By: stevestyle http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2008/10/follow-up-loops-and-the-harmonic-series/comment-page-1/#comment-398 Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:03:24 +0000 http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=259#comment-398 Thanks, I wasn’t sure if it was valid to add the expected values. You can avoid this problem by considering the number of cords and loops in all n! possible combinations.

There are n! combinations which contain n! x n cords.
As we have seen the chance of a cord being in a loop of size r is 1/n, so there are n! such cords. Each such loop has r cords and so the number of such loops is n!/r. The total number of loops is the sum of n!/r for 1<=r<=n. Dividing by n! gives the average number of loops per combination which is 1 + ½ + 1/3 + … + 1/n.

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By: strauss http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2008/10/follow-up-loops-and-the-harmonic-series/comment-page-1/#comment-397 Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:32:29 +0000 http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=259#comment-397 That is very slick. I may go back and edit this post with this simpler argument…

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By: stevestyle http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2008/10/follow-up-loops-and-the-harmonic-series/comment-page-1/#comment-396 Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:50:06 +0000 http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=259#comment-396 I have an alternative proof for the expected number of loops where we are dealing with extension cords.

Let e(r) be the expected number of loops of length r where r <= n. Each such loop contains r cords. So the expected number of cords which are in a loop of length r is re(r). The probability of a random cord being part of a loop of length r is re(r)/n.

We can calculate this probability a different way. Starting with our random cord:
It will be in a loop of length 1 if it connects to itself, the probability is 1/n.
It will be in a loop of length 2 if it connects to a different cord which then connects to the first, probability (n-1)/n x 1/(n-1) = 1/n.
In general the probability of being in a loop of length r is (n-1)/n x (n-2)/(n-1) x (n-3)/(n-2) x … x (n+1-r)/(n+2-r) x 1/(n+1-r) = 1/n.
So the probability of a random cord being in a loop of length r is always 1/n. Interestingly this doesn’t depend on r (except that r must be less than n).

Before we showed that this probability was re(r)/n, so we have re(r)/n = 1/n and so e(r) = 1/r. The expected number of loops of length r is 1/r. This time the answer doesn’t depend on n (except that r must be less than n).
The expected number of loops is the sum of the expected number of loops of each size which is
e(1) + e(2) +e(3) + … + e(n) = 1 + ½ + 1/3 + … + 1/n

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By: strauss http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2008/10/follow-up-loops-and-the-harmonic-series/comment-page-1/#comment-395 Tue, 14 Oct 2008 03:15:13 +0000 http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=259#comment-395 I should have mentioned: with 100 extension cords, one can expect about 5.2 loops on average; with 100 spaghetti noodles, one can expect about 3.3 loops.

Do those numbers seem reasonable? Intuitively (and wrongly) I myself would guess that one would have more loops than that, on average!

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